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Reactive Training Systems Forum |
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Subject :Long term training..
2010-02-13 19:03:19
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Subject :Re:Long term training..
2010-02-15 17:34:31
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| Mike Tuchscherer |
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Joined: 2009-06-16 20:55:37
Posts: 400
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When I say some programs like Westside lack long-term planning, I mean this... You should have an idea of where you're going. The idea of "we walk into the gym and pick an exercise when we get there" is a huge waste of talent. The thing is Powerlifting is a sport much like any other. Its athletes need to be trained like athletes -- not like weekend warriors. There is no long-term direction. Look, if you study human adaptation, you'll find that the human body adapts in very specific ways. In terms of preparation for powerlifting, it adapts to the load and the movement. This adaptation is a double-edged sword. On the one hand, this adaptation is what is responsible for strength gain. On the other hand, after this adaptation has taken place, you need a greater stimulus to motivate further adaptation. Then it gets more specific -- the body adapts to volumes, intensities, exercises, tempos, rest periods, teperatures, bar speeds, hydration levels, vitamin deficiencies, etc, etc, etc. To say the human body is amazingly adaptable is a huge understatement. Why does that matter to a Powerlifter? Because if you don't account for and control these adaptations, you'll never reach your full potential. So I can't put my faith in a system that willfully neglects these physiological facts. Lets take Westside for example -- and let's just look at the system as written about by Louie. There is little if any long-term planning. The volumes and intensities, at least from a monthly standpoint and especially an annual standpoint, are nearly stagnant. You rotate exercises, but haphazardly. Now, taking a position such as this, I'm often met with the argument, "it's hard to argue with their results, isn't it?" It isn't really. For discussion's sake, I won't take into account the general state of training in Multi Ply lifting (where Westsiders most often compete). Look at Westside as a singularity. It's not an argument of whether it works or not. As Dr Squat would say, "it's a question of Good, Better, Best." What they are doing may be good, but that doesn't mean it can't be improved upon. All this said, I have a tremendous respect for multi ply lifters in general and Westsiders in particular. Several friends of mine are multi-ply lifters. But that doesn't mean we can't disagree on training issues! |
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Subject :Re:Long term training..
2010-02-15 19:06:53
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| MGMelgar |
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Joined: 2010-02-05 22:18:02
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How would you suggest that someone using the Westside system implement long term planning? Would it be similar to what you suggest in your DVD? Pick a meet. Pick percentages that you would like to work at. Select exercises that you want to rotate making sure that exercises become more competition specific as the meet approaches. |
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Subject :Re:Long term training..
2010-02-16 06:35:43
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| Mike Tuchscherer |
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Joined: 2009-06-16 20:55:37
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I think that sort of thinking would be helpful to the overall system, yes. And you could take it further and modify the ratios of "main" work (DE and ME) to assistance work so the main stuff is more prominent at the end. Here's my thing, though... I used to compartmentalize training into "camps". This is Westside, this is Sheiko, etc. But once I learned enough about physiology, stress response, and training adaptation, I don't view it as camps anymore. When I set up training for someone, it's not so much which system best suits them, but rather which tools suit their needs best. Then I construct the system based on that. I guess what I'm getting at is this... Dr Squat said a long time ago, "its a question of good, better, best." I think applying long term planning and other modifications to the "camp" systems is better. But to get to "best", we really need to move beyond that thinking. But physiology knowledge requires more effort, so to hope that becomes common thinking may be a stretch. |
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Subject :Re:Long term training..
2010-02-16 06:38:21
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| Mike Tuchscherer |
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Joined: 2009-06-16 20:55:37
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And of course this begs the question... what about RTS? Does that fit into a camp? RTS attempts to package the physiological knowledge I've gained so it's easier to digest, but even so, if you just blindly apply it, it can be a "camp" system. But if you are continually educating yourself on the training process, I don't think you have much to worry about. |
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Subject :Re:Long term training..
2010-02-25 19:07:20
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| Dustin |
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Joined: 2010-02-14 01:59:49
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What do you mean by "camp"?? |
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Subject :Re:Long term training..
2010-02-25 19:27:51
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| Wilmer |
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Joined: 2009-09-24 01:23:35
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Never let it rest. Until your good is better. And your better is your best. |
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Subject :Re:Long term training..
2010-02-25 19:51:56
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| Wilmer |
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Joined: 2009-09-24 01:23:35
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That was the reason I plan to train Reactive Training system way...K But before I jump on RTS I read articles of westside and Percentages program , Elite FTS and Even RTS itself.... I started liken the RTs the more I read about it. It make sense with this training philosophy. You always working on the things you need work on (improve On)....so It will be hard to get stuck on some weight. With RTs you will come in the gym knowin you will give everything you got Instead of coming in the gym thinking I got to get this 95 pecent for a double!! I hope I explain this right. |
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Subject :Re:Re:Long term training..
2010-02-26 07:26:40
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| Andrew Hollenbeck |
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Joined: 2009-07-30 06:18:41
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Wilmer, I think you hit the nail on the head with the working on weak points and always bringing those up. I think with this quote though, I believe with RTS you still set it up for percentages. For instance, you will setup your workout for 12-15 total reps, w/ sets in the 2-3 rep range, at 80-90% (8-9 RPE). So if 400 is 80% and 450 is 90%..you are doing your sets and you get to 450 and it feels like an 8 still, then you can go up higher in weight until you hit the 9. Or if you aren't feeling it one day and 400 feels like a 9, you stop there. That is the beauty of RTS is it allows for you to train to your strength on any particular day. Because somedays 80% feels like 90% and some days 90% feels like 80% and it allows you to lift based on how you feel on any given day.
[Wilmer 2010-02-25 18:51:56]: With RTs you will come in the gym knowin you will give everything you got Instead of coming in the gym thinking I got to get this 95 pecent for a double! |
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Subject :Re:Re:Long term training..
2010-02-26 11:51:56
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| Mike Tuchscherer |
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Joined: 2009-06-16 20:55:37
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I mean the "Westside Camp" or the "Sheiko Camp" or the "Smolov Camp"... It's just an expression. Basically, if you are following a system blindly without understanding what you're doing, you fit into some kind of camp. This is almost necessary in the beginning, but we should strive to learn enough about our physiology to go beyond this level of thought.
I remember at the Air Force Academy, we had a management class where we discussed everything BUT traditional management topics. In one such class, we discussed levels of thought (I believe according to the Buddhists). Anyway, without getting into a long anecdote (partly because I don't remember it all), after you learn enough, you can get beyond compartmentalizing your knowledge into groups. This is what I'm referring to. Just because you use the "DE method" doesn't mean you train Westside and so on. Make more sense?
[Dustin 2010-02-25 18:07:20]: What do you mean by "camp"?? |
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Subject :Re:Re:Re:Long term training..
2010-02-26 18:29:55
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| Wilmer |
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Joined: 2009-09-24 01:23:35
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Yea!.... I forgot to mentioned the percentages part about RTS. THanks Andrew
[Andrew Hollenbeck 2010-02-26 06:26:40]: Wilmer, I think you hit the nail on the head with the working on weak points and always bringing those up. I think with this quote though, I believe with RTS you still set it up for percentages. For instance, you will setup your workout for 12-15 total reps, w/ sets in the 2-3 rep range, at 80-90% (8-9 RPE). So if 400 is 80% and 450 is 90%..you are doing your sets and you get to 450 and it feels like an 8 still, then you can go up higher in weight until you hit the 9. Or if you aren't feeling it one day and 400 feels like a 9, you stop there. That is the beauty of RTS is it allows for you to train to your strength on any particular day. Because somedays 80% feels like 90% and some days 90% feels like 80% and it allows you to lift based on how you feel on any given day.
[Wilmer 2010-02-25 18:51:56]: With RTs you will come in the gym knowin you will give everything you got Instead of coming in the gym thinking I got to get this 95 pecent for a double! |
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